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Emiliana didn't know if she had succeeded in that goal yet, but she at least wanted to take a second crack at that conversation with Gohvis.

"There's something I've been meaning to ask you," she said. "A philosophical question."

Gohvis made no response, perhaps just waiting for her to elaborate.

"...You told me that the reason you side with Abolish is because you think that human beings are a problem by our very nature, didn't you?"

"Yes."

"And you said that the reason our nature is a problem is because of 'growth,' right?"

"Yes."

"And... you said that growth is a problem because of conflict. And conflict is--"

"No."

Emiliana stopped walking. "What?"

Gohvis stopped as well and turned to her. "I said that the human need for growth is a problem. And I said that growth requires conflict. But I did not say that growth is a problem because of conflict."

She blinked, rethinking what she'd been about to say. "Oh... then I think I've misunderstood what you were trying to tell me before."

"Mm." He began walking again.

She moved to catch up. Were they even going to the refectory now? That was where she had been headed, but now he was in the lead. "So--wait a minute. I thought you were saying that conflict is a problem because it requires instigation and that instigation is self-evidently a problem."

"No. Growth is what is self-evidently the problem," said Gohvis.

"That doesn't seem self-evident at all."

"No? The world is finite. Growth only ever increases. The clash between the two is inevitable. The problem, therefore, is self-evident."

Emiliana furrowed her brow, suddenly uncertain. "But you said all those things before about conflict being bad..."

"Yes. That is how many in Abolish view the problem. Growth requires conflict. Eliminate conflict, eliminate growth. In fact, some consider conflict to be the only problem and think nothing of growth. They make war in order to end war. Noble, in some sense."

"But that's not what you believe."

"No, it is not, though the end goal is similar, at least in principle."